He sold them to me.

Sorry Eric, most of the time you are right but this time I agree with Randy!

Well I believe the first thing we must understand is we are marketing and sales agents for our network marketing companies and our sole purpose is to bring that companys products and or services to market and we build a large downline so that we can move product and create volume which creates the big checks it's just that simple. there is nothing wrong with the word sales. The world economy would come to a screeching halt if things are not sold and people who don't want to sell should stay out of our industry it's sales! and it's a beautiful thing.

This is where Robert Kiyosaki's teaching comes in, we are now in Information Age. We educate people, so that they decide for themselves if they are qualified or not to do the right actions.

I love the mini debate. Though the idea was not sold to me, I bought it.

Interesting... The term "sales" is laced with as much knee jerk reaction as is MLM. True sales is finding a product that fits the customer and helping him or her understand how it will benefit them. At least that is what I was taught. In any event this is a wonderful interview.

So I'm writing this BEFORE watching. It is an aboslute lie/con saying it's a SHARING business.

And those companies that have HIGH personal use (which meansthat you have to SELL) - are more DIRECT SALES companies - I don't believe they are true networking marketing companies.

Then there are the few that are TRUE NETWORK MARKETING companies - where you market a product through the duplication of your network.

You don't SHARE anything - except your joy.

You don't SELL anything - except yourself.

Only 10% of the world are sales people.... Thus those companies that have HIGH amounts to sell, are not (imho) doing the industry a service.

Selling vs Marketing..... It's clear to me a 'newbie' to the Profession; I have been trying to sell what I should be Marketing... Now I think am understanding the difference... LOVE THIS PROFESSION... networkmarketingpro.com

Marketing vs. Selling -- loved the mini-debate!

While reading the "The MLM Revolution" it occurred to me that the distinction may lie within the INTENT of the speaker:

"We are looking for people...who are looking for what we offer." (page 34)

Conversion then is not our primary goal (like wrestling a pig to the ground), rather, it's Enlightenment. Both pursuits are strategically calculated and both are deliberately executed, but in the end, one is trying to change a prospect's mind while the other is simply extending an open invitation -- like a beacon of light. So as the metaphor goes then, one gets better at wrestling while the other learns to shine more beautifully; and one becomes a bully, while the other becomes a star.

I personally feel, based on what I heard, that Randy was marketing his belief and I see his point and totally agree with what was said.

Eric, answering your question
Randy did not sell
He refers to selling to the manipulation stuff, I dont like either
Maybe networkmarketers leaders shouls join and make an official dicctionary with a terme of definitions
PRO speaks profesional
Watch, architects, doctors, lawyers, they all speak using a special language of their fields
In networkmarketing we dont, or we have the same word with differents meanings
Selling, sharing, educating, marketing
I like the word educating
educate people is similar to share, cause what Randy did, was sharing his thoughts, and that was educational
There was no manipulation trying to convince us, and that is the key: NO MANIPULATION
Y met a man who said that the secret to sell was let them buy
Very very necesary this Internet Networkmarketing University
From Santiago de Chile
Juan Carlos Torrico

YES, he MARKETED...after my months in Network Marketing, i have learned that there is a difference to Selling and Marketing...and in my opinion, Selling=Convincing and Marketing=Educating or Expressing....selling is just taking the money and run!...while Marketing is practicing what you preach.

I took a marketing class in college and I think it applies here.

I was taught that Marketers find a need and fill it - i.e looking for people who are at 12:00.

Salespeople attempt to create the need through sales techniques - i.e trying to 'make' someone's clock read 12:00.

Make sense?

Best,
Scott

Thanks for the 'Education' Randy! :-)

Great stuff guys...

Best,
Scott

I Hear you Randy. Its about marketing to someone with the information that inspires them to decide to join rather than selling them (convincing) them to join. The interesting thing with that, is the systems of the companies I have been with over the years, provide a high level outline of what to do (including some closing techniques), and usually some personal development. I have not however, found them to teach marketing techniques. While not everyone is good at sales, not everyone is good at marketing. But I believe (like Leaders are developed not born), team members can become great at marketing if specific training is given in this area. Awesome video by the way :)

Eric is TOTALLY right when he said " Randy is a world-class salesman".

Randy SELLS himself, his seminars, his products, his trainings, etc... and that`s OK. I would too! (don't try to sell my your shirt though.... c'mon Randy!)

We ALL sell something. When you're dating someone, you're "selling" yourself, when you had 8 years old and wanted to sleep-over at a friends house, you "sold" the situation to your parents so they'll let you go.

In sum: Marketing and Selling goes hand by hand until the desision making part. That's the part where selling takes a right turn and Marketing goes the opposite way. In Marketing you won't "close" the prospect, you just showed him/her all the benefits of your product and let the prospect decide, while when selling, at this point you are making the prospect BUY even if he/she doesn`t want to.

All the best...

Erick
Lima-Peru

I agree with Tony Scarcia. It's just how you use the words in the context

Marketing or Selling... perhaps it's just symantics (I'm Japanese, what do I know!) and I personally see it both ways. It's marketing and selling.

I like the concept of marketing as it is Network Marketing. However, it doesn't mean selling is bad - money is circulated because there are sales in the world. Whichever it is, I really loved the clip mainly because I always love watching the interactions between you two and always appreciate the message you want to bring across to the world.

Those who know Eric and Randy will understand that there is more depth than what is said. Especially Randy loves to trigger emotional responses in you because he likes to challenge people. So don't get caught up on some of the comments that are said - it's to bring their point across. The lovely part is that Eric and Randy are both so keen on raising the standard of the network marketing industry and we all need to step up and duplicate.

Thank you for another great one!

ERIC WORRE #38
ENTREVISTA A RANDY GAGE
“VENDIENDO, COMPARTIENDO O MERCADEANDO”

Hola, estamos en una Industria que maneja $ 120 billion, desde hace mas de 20 años, 67 millones de personas en el mundo.
Que hacemos “MAL”, que te enloquece? Como educarnos?

RG- SABER QUE HACEMOS? Somos Network Marketers o multinivel Marketers, no somos Network “sharing” o multinivel “sharing”, ni somos vendedores de Redes o vendedores de multinivel! Cual es la diferencia?
Esto me lleva a la 2da. cosa que me vuelve loco!
Y es que la gente al prospectar (y quisiera elevar el nivel de nuestra profesión) miente con la idea de un negocio con enormes beneficios conseguidos con pequeñas estrategias!
Existen dos tipos de negocios:
El negocio al detal – la persona quiere usar y vender los productos y compartir con su grupo de familiares, amigos y clientes. Con eso gana unos $200/semana y está bien, no hay problemas!
Pero esto no te da los bonus de carros, viajes, etc! Entonces la promesa de que “vas a ser multi-millonario, vas a ver, vas a viajar, tener carros gratis, no necesitas hacer gran cosa!”
ES MENTIRA, necesitamos tener INTEGRIDAD con nuestros prospectos: “Si haces esto, podrás obtener esto. Muchos de los que hacen este negocio al detal, no tienen idea del gran negocio!
“No necesitas vender, no necesitas mercadear, solo compartir!”
COMPARTIR! Es una actitud pasiva!
“Nosotros no VENDEMOS, solo COMPARTIMOS!”
Sabemos que al 90% de la gente en el mundo, NO LE GUSTA VENDER, NO QUIEREN, tienen MIEDO DEL RECHAZO!
Para el 10% restante, le encanta VENDER! Están felices de oír miles de “NO”. Voy a ser rico!
Pero esto no es la fórmula, NO ES DUPLICABLE, al 90 % restante no lo va a hacer! Debemos ser lo suficiente PROFESIONAL como para saber esta diferencia.
VENTAS: usar las técnicas para convencer, manipular a la persona que necesita comprar mi producto. (Esto no es apropriado para nosotros, porque No es DUPLICABLE).
MERCADEO: usar las técnicas para educar al prospecto, darle las suficientes informaciones para que él pueda tomar las decisiones más correctas y tener éxito!
LA LLAVE ES:
Tenemos que tener PASION, ENTUSIASMO, soy un pésimo vendedor, pero soy un brillante “Marketer”. Lo que los “Marketers” hacemos es CREAR el mensaje mas compulsivo y mostramos al prospecto las razones mas importantes por las cuales él debe tomar acciones! En eso debemos dedicar toda nuestra PASION Y ENTUSIASMO

EW: tú vendes a ti mismo, tus ideas, eres excelente vendedor también. Estas ayudando en la educación de la gente!

LO QUE QUIERO
Lo que busco no es motivar a la gente ni convencerla, sino CONSEGUIR PERSONAS MOTIVADAS y EDUCARLAS, personas interesadas en lo que hacemos y EDUCARLAS!

Your supermarket 'sells' you food. It is 'marketing' that makes you buy a particular product or brand. It is desire/need that makes you go to the supermarket in the first place. We are really looking for people with the need AND the desire and then it is marketing that makes them choose our opportunity rather than any other. But you still have to close them/relate to them with a bit of salemanship (or maybe just enthusiasm) or they are likely to walk on by!

Greetings from Ecuador guys!

Very good series Eric, keep the good work!

I agree with Randy that selling and marketing are two different things and we have to Market our business.
Marketing is the campaign, estrategies, methods to motivate people to do a thing, to Educate people about a need. To place the motivation and desire of going to buy something. To act!
The selling is the final process where you have to close and manipulate each client to effectively make the people buy the product.

Randy is both a salesman & marketer. They are intertwined. The definition of sales is to help people make decisions that better their lives. Isn't that what he's doing? I also get packages in the mail from Randy that "markets" his material. He's both.

What we need to do is teach the correct definition of sales. When we do that, 90% of our problems are solved in this business because most people really do want to help people better their lives.

Great job Eric & Randy Randy you said that puting signs on your car suv ect. was a not to good of a way to make the $50,00000 a month bonuses ect. My question is just how do you really get the word out to people? because i feel that it is the best way to get the webstie out there because you are letting the world know that you are proud of what you do & that they come to you & there is less regection then you can sell or edcuate them on your oppertunity can you get back to me on this one

Excellent video guys. I'd say, if we take SALES, as "an exchange of a good or a service for something with value". You are top sellers, since here is a great EDUCATING value you're giving away.. Therefore you are TOP sales people, but not in the conventional way. I paid with my time, and is worth it.

Hello Eric & Randy,

Randy you're EDUCATING !!
In today's networkmarketing bussiness this is by far the best definition.
True - Eric - that helps people to obtain the product or service offered, but the philosophy behind that is to acheive better life, better health, BETTER WORLD !!
Great session,

Gby Di-Capua, Israel

Hey guys,

I felt more educated than sold but well we're not gonna fight on words...

I like 'marketer' better since we are in network MARKETING not network selling or network sharing, plus selling involves for me the fact that someone is paying for something and when I work with prospects they aren't paying me nor buying me something, if they start they gonna buy products to the company not me, my job was to inform them about it and like Randy said give them informations so they can make the right decision, plus I'm gonna evaluate whether that person is right or not for my business because I don't want to invest time with someone who isn't right.
I don't see myself as a walking ad "I'm so good, buy me"
now you too are doing the same thing (your actions i mean) so it's just about the interpretation or definition of the word itself...

anyway thanks a lot for "sharing" this ;-

I felt more that Randy was education us. Not marketing, not selling.

Sales is just one part of the Marketing process: it begins before selling and ends after the sales ends. It envolves research, promotion, service, etc. If you want to be a good marketer, you have to be a good seller, it's part of if. You can´t avoid it. You can be an expert in different areas, and maybe the selling is not the preferred one, but you have to know and manage the essentials.
As I see this business of NM, you have to understand your prospect or client, understand their needs, and then present them with an offer they can´t refuse, because it is presented in such a way that it matches inmediately with their needs.
You both are amazing sellers and marketers.

Great video, as usual, Eric! Great salesmanship disguised as marketing, as usual, Randy! LOL. Just kidding. Lets get to my point...

Joe the BMW Salesman vs MLMPro
1) BOTH strives to deliver their "message" across in the most effective and compelling manner

2) BOTH strives to educate the listener on the "strengths" of their offering (whether it's talking about the "power of our inline 6 cylinders made of space-shuttle-grade tetra-germanium alloy" or "power of leverage")

3) BOTH strives to share the benefits of their offering (whether it's "biometric lumbar control seats" or "become successful by helping others reach success"

My point is... both the BMW salesperson and MLMPro are selling, marketing, educating and sharing.

What is the diff? One does it in a way that is not very DUPLICABLE, while the other does it in a way that is DUPLICABLE by a large group of people over a consistent period of time.

Thanks for listening. Let the discussion roll on!

I was educated, We have an awsome buisness model and people need to be exposed to the one model they are never taught any where else but by the leaders in the Marketing Industrie. Keep up the good work. God Bless

I think the BIGGEST difference between SELLING and MARKETING is trying to convince people, trying to say and do what the other one wants us to.

When you are trying to sell something, you need to show your customer how does your product fulfill his/her needs. If he buys you succeed, if he doesn't it means you failed. Even though sales is a part of marketing it is a TINY part that involves just one customer and a salesperson in a DETERMINED MOMENT.

Marketing is MUCH BIGGER THAN THAT. Randy DOESN'T CARE whether we agree with him or not. He KNOWS what he has and he knows it is GREAT. The only thing he has to do now is show it to us in a way that benefits the whole COMPANY (ie. him) and AND MAKES IT PROFITABLE. If a customer doesn't "buy", IT WASN'T FOR HIM/HER, he is not going to try hard to please him/her. Let the next one come. The failure was not on the salesman ;)

Dear Amigos

Marketing is to do the market. As per Philip Kotler (marketing guru), it is to satisfy customers. Marketing has several functions, as we know: advertisement, promotions, sampling, brand building, packaging, etc…Selling is one step of this process where steps are taken to accomplish the trade. Both have techniques and both can be educative, but in my point of view marketing educates more than sell does. As we know, people love to buy, but hate to be sold. This way selling is perceived as the bad guys and marketing as the rock stars. But both are equally important to any business,

Sorry Randy, but… I agree with Eric. You are both a great marketer and a natural salesman too (and this is not bad at all!)

Cheers!

This was Good! Sales is a one time process & then "You" have to do it again & again & again!!! Marketing is getting people to see it, taste it, feel it, experience it & finally act (Buy) on it Once, then "They" will do it again & again & again! Now put a "Network" in from of the "Marketing" then you got an amazing "Business" that you do not have to be the "Star" of!!! This causes "True" residual income that we are all after! Great Info...

What can I say? I'M SOLD!! Actually, I do totally agree with Randy on, "I am looking for people who really want what I have to offer!" I do not want to SELL anyone on it! I totally believe in it and I hate selling and I also hate "being sold." On the other hand, I know that I have something of value and I desire to "share" this knowledge with everyone I meet. The simplicity of the whole NWM thing amazes me and for the life of me I can't figure out why in the world everyone is not doing it in one company or another! Thank you for sharing with us on how we are not selling, but marketing.. Have an awesome day!!!! Sheatina

I said it before earlier and I'm glad Eric repeated it...

Selling is defined in the dictionary as "the act of participating in the exchange of goods and services for an amount of money or its equivalent."

Please show me where does it say selling is "“forcing people to buy something they don’t want or need.” All of those strategies that Randy talked about, that's a FORM of selling, it's not selling itself.

A Toyota is a FORM of a car. A Lexus is a FORM of a car.

Not all cars are Toyotas. Not all cars are Lexus'.

With all due respect to those who feel this way, I can't comprehend how anyone can seriously equate all selling to manipulation and forcing people to buy stuff they don't want.

Great clip again, I love this "Information" or you may as some will call it "education." I feel that it is a perspective. Now that that perspective comes from 2 very successful marketers, it may well be education. Wow!

I feel that Randy, was marketing his ideas or "philosophy" to me. I already mostly agree, so I guess he "sold" it to me. Yes sometimes, marketing is just marketing and does not result in a "sale." Think GM cars!

Most people "buy" anything because of the way it makes them feel (emotionally.) So they buy the product (it will make me; thinner, healthier, sexier insert any adjective you want) or they buy the opportunity (it will make me: wealthier, have more time, yada, yada, yada.)

Most people join people, why? Again certain people make recruits feel good! Now, can we make them money, or at least make them happy (ier?). Up to them. With help from us (as leaders)

Lastly, you always teach, systems duplicate....talent does not. Most of the BIG DOGS, have talent, until we develop that, the rest of us have to learn to use the systems! To sell, recruit and teach to do the same.

Thanks E!

Hello Eric

This was fantastic, every day i´m learning from you

Randy Gage was marketing his ideas!!!!!!!

Thank you

From Portugal

Rui Bustorff

Great discussion and both of you are wright :).

I believe that, if we add one word to what Randy Gage says, everybody can agree and that word is "traditional".

At the end we all sell and some things are the same for every system, like enthousiasm.
But the traditional salesmen use all kinds of techniques to directly sell. In NM we inform people in a way that lets them come to the conclusion themselves that this is what they need, what will bring them the life they want.

Our business is not about traditional sales. We have to educate, share with people our experiences and inform people in an enthousiastic way, so that they see or discover this is really what they have been looking for all their life.
And because of the way we are doing this, we are selling, but indirectly. To my opinion that's the difference.

Great initiative Eric! I hope that also people in Belgium watch these video's regularly. They bring such a great value for everybody!
Thank you and your collegues who take part in the presentations.

Hallo Erik & Randy

sorry Erik to say so, when i got over the Line, it was Randy Marketing his life storie.
it wery simple, now the biss.
What ever you want, give it away. If you want love, make someone else loved. If you want power, make a friend powerful. What do you want?
keep it simple - use and share - help those in need - in time it all get back to you self one way or another
whis you all a nice sunny weekend
Karsten Aagaard
i am a network marketing professional

Initially I thought -What´s in it for me? Like grab a bite at the wolftable, be rich and then run away. Make other people admire you as getting rich and other MLMs being jealous about my succeed.
After a while when that did´nt work out the idealistric wiev of took overhand and creating a lifestyle chewing the products and become a product of the prosducts. All about that particulary product.
In this company I have seen the bottom line of it.
Caring, when I step out of my selfishness and learn how to ilsten to other peoples needs like : What would you like to do? what are your dreams. dont think only about what you are abel to do, that will limit your life because there is only history in it and the thruth is , the history is almost filled with failure in whealth and satisfaction for example . So dream on what would you like to do? Earn sufficient money to create liberty from poverty, a platform where you can live life fully. have a healthy body that attracts and others.

So our business is about - caring, personal develooping and coaching. In the mean time you´re getting paid.

Randy, I totally agree with your distinction of building a retail business versus a team of distributor/wholesale consumers (rock stars). I'm with you on the "looking for people who are looking" attitude, too.

However, Eric, I'm with you on the semantics. Randy, you are selling your ideas and yourself. You are no less manipulative with your "compelling marketing" than a "salesman" who engages the prospect in a dialogue. Compel means to make someone do something. What you are compelling them to do is to decide. Decide if they want out of the rat race and are willing to do what it takes.

This distinction of sales versus marketing versus sharing is bogus. You say only 10% of people are sales types. What percentage are marketing types? 10%? Not 80%. I'll bet you'll find the percentage of "sharing" types higher than either, but you're not promoting that, Randy.

It's style. What I hear from both of you is automate the process as much as possible (third party tools), answer issues and questions before their asked, let those who get it, are looking for it, and want it step up, and run with the best. Keep it simple. Do not en-gage real people directly until they are onboard. Talk to your tribe.

Ga'Day from Downunda,

Traditionally you had Marketing, Sales AND Distribution.I belive we are involved in all three areas of this industry. A lot of company's call their people "Distributors"

There are so many examples of these 3 "Departments" (For want of a better word) overlapping & I believe we actually do all three of these services.
I believe we need to come up with a new term, or catch phrase, for what we do.

If two of the most credible leaders in this industry can come to such a debate...
What hope has a poor simple prospect have of distinguishing the differences... LOL.

Selling, Marketing, Networking... hmmm... I think we're getting hung up on the various definitions here without necessarily moving forward.

Bottom line is this.... find great people by meeting a lot of people, build strong relationships with the best prospects and do what Randy said in the previous tape "lead a large group of people to consistently repeat a few simple actions over an extended period of time".

So... let's not make it too complicated. End of story!

Michael Eisbrener and Wes Anderson both get my vote on this one. With all due respect, Randy- and I do respect you no end - (that's my way of saying: You know I love you) this distinction you make between educating and selling is..... well pretty far out.

I hate manipulation, and that is definitely out.

So- in answer to Eric's question: I feel that Randy was (desperately - and ingeniously) trying to sell me on his feeling that selling=manipulation. I don't buy.

Selling, and I'm following Tim Sales here, is helping someone get what they need or want.

The professional salesman knows how to help a person "get" to what they actually need or want. Quite often, this is hidden from consciousness by a lot of baggage. The questions a professional salesman asks are not manipulative - they are geared towards weeding out the truth from the rubbish that has accumulated as garbage.

Now, you must distinguish between the sale of something tangible like a pair of pants and a lifestyle and paradigm change like network marketing. It just ain't the same.
Even if you sell someone on network marketing, the baggage comes back to haunt him, and nag him and eventually... probably cause him quit. This is where the education comes in. And, it works only for those few people whose baggage is light enough to allow them to remain motivated enough to keep sorting their own truth out from the baggage as they go along.
The balance between the weight of the baggage and the strength of the motivation CAN BE INFLUENCED BY EDUCATION and enhanced self awareness. BUT THIS ALL COMES AFTER THE SALE.

The professional network marketer is thus both a mentor (meaning educator) and salesman.

How does this mesh with the all important duplication? Well it depends on the person himself and how motivated he is to EDUCATE himself.
Richard Brooke really says this well - and put it all together on an interview he gave a couple of weeks ago at http://www.mediafolder2005.com/downloads/webcas... skip over to minute 3, because there were some technical difficulties at the beginning.

And finally just to pull all of this back to the discussion Randy and Eric had - marketing is deciding what your target population is, locating it, and presenting what we have to offer IN A WAY THAT THEY WILL ABLE TO RECEIVE THE MESSAGE!

Sure, a lot of manipulation goes into mainstream marketing - of jeans and cars (sex, lifestyle etc..), and some propose that the same psychological manipulative techniques be used to draw people to our presentations as well. That will not work, because network marketing is not a pair of jeans. It IS a lifestyle and usually a paradigm shift.

Those are my two cents.

Wow this was my favortie epsiode and I think Randy hit on the head. I also agreed that educating and selling are totally different. In my eyes educating is factual and sales is hype border line misleading people (telling them what they want to hear to get the sale). Great stuff...

I would like to to the answer to this question. How many people do these leaders work with at one time who they personally help to ahieve rockstar incomes? Do they let a system manage them or do they hands on work with a set amount until the task is completed?

Thanks,

Kris Wilson

Hi guys,
I thought a lot about this one….Check this out. Whether selling or marketing, don’t they both have the same objective? However, in MLM when we are prospecting. Are we not looking for business partners? So, what do you think about marketing and idea, and educating on the details and “How to”?
Doesn’t selling try to create the need and handle objection to close the sale? Were as, in MLM to have a successful business, and better chance of successful partner. Don’t we look for people who are looking? We still handle objections. But isn’t the need there before hand? And, how much more information, analysis, and evaluation does it require getting into a business vs. buying a good or service?
I tend to agree with Randy. What do you think?

Great content Eric….thought provoking.

Cheers

Jose

Hey John...

You can check out the fundamentals or practical application training such as inviting, creating on ongoing candidate list, etc. at http://www.sixfiguretv.com

Ivan (Network Marketing Professional)

In my opinion this fear of sale is because when the economy was good ,but that only ,people with "bad intention" tried to manipulate the buyers to buy more, maybe because of that i don't like the word of salesman but any exchange include sale .You don't need to be a salesman, if you do the best marketing you can the product, service,idea,etc will be sale alone , actually the prospects will buy them.
I think Randy is a tenderer , he has something to offer, who want good, who not good.
In Network Marketing i think only the company is occupy about selling,but i think only 10 % of the process, the rest 90% of the process is done because the end consumer buy.Maybe we can eliminate the word "sale" because it don't explain verry good the sens and replace it with offer .This is my opinion .Do you agree with me?

P.S. I am not verry good in english and maybe i couldn't explain verry well what I wanted to sayd.

Great work as always Eric for posting these wonderful interviews with terrific leaders. Thank you.

Question: If you are solving a problem is that selling or marketing?

Keep up the good work.

John

P.S. Have you ever thought about doing a segment about a REAL problem in MLM... how to find qualified prospects? Let's face it if you have nobody to talk to, you can't sell or market anything.

This is quite an interesting post Eric.

To be quite honest, Marketing which invloves awareness, education and knowledge leads to selling your business opportunity or products. Now the point that Randy mentioned about people need to be passionsate, enthuastic are all salesman characteristics. So its a combination of first marketing blended with salesman characteristics.

Another point to note in our profession about DUPLICATION, is that the duplicatble activities we partake in to sponsor a new person is a great marketing system, but we have to do pur bit to utilise the salesman triats i mentioned earlier on to create the end sale.

Great posting

Peter,

I agree. I've been guilty myself about overdoing the "sharing" script. I'm looking HARD at ALL of my scripts in the cold hard light of reality and making changes when necessary. This is one such change that you'll see me advocate in the future.

Eric

hey, youre own company agel is talking about "sharing" and "we dont sell" in their own promotion video on their website!? what do you say about?

I agree with you, Mark...A fair exchange is what a "sale" is. Money in exchange for goods and services, that is the fundamental of a market economy and MLM is only another form of distribution of goods and services. Nothing really happens until something is sold. What I think Randy is saying is that 90% of the population have a perception about "selling" that makes duplication impossible. The same 90% have fears about MLM, in my opinion.

So educating people about what selling really is or is not, is part of the process. The true definition of marketing includes selling.

If we are marketers, or network marketers, we are sellers and educators too. I have no problem telling people what I believe about sales. No business can exist without it. Good selling includes educating and helping someone make a good decision.

Eric, I agree with your interpretation and analysis.

1. With knowledge a consumer can make a more educated decision to buy.

2. Marketing means nothing if it doesn't translate to sales.

3. Sales must be the end result, otherwise what's the point?

Did Randy mean“…alluded too…” or did he really mean“…diluted too...” suggesting that he was watering down your point of marketing to sales.

I do understand that Randy doesn’t want a traditional salesman to be confused with a network marketing professional, but the end results from both still need to generate sales.

In my opinion, marketing becomes a means to communicate honest knowledge to consumers’ inner real or perceived needs and/or adding value to their lives, and to hopefully be effective enough to prompt them to buy. A sale by any other name is still marketing to that essential end result.

Anytime you ask someone for an order of any kind you are selling.. Period..

In the other hand, what you are doing Eric here on this site is Marketing, you place generic info that truly gives massive value but at the same time people are out there selling themselves on you. You will never ask them to join you in business so you never ask for an order yet people themselves will want to do business with you and a s a result your business will grow..

Randy Markets with The Manifesto and all his generic training, he sells when he is at a company presentation..

Thanks for the great value..

Jaime Morales

I agree with Randy 100 percent, sorry Eric. To me, the definition of selling is exchanging a product for money - simple. I dislike this intensly as over 90% of the world's population. That's the reason I quit 3 MLM companies when it suddenly dawned on me that I was selling to my customers and not working with and educating my team.

That's not what Randy's doing - he's not even selling himself. He's educating people, he's causing paradigm shift's, he's empowering people to grow and be the best they can - to reach their full (infinite) potential! That's what network marketing really is. You begin as a certain person and you continually grow and develop in all aspects of your personality and life. This is what causes your business to grow and not how many products you sell.

Thank you both for this great series and the insights you share.

Selling doesn't automatically mean "forcing people to buy something they don't want or need". In the best sense, selling is helping people obtain a product or service that can make their life better. That may be through demonstration, education, inspiration, persuasion, etc. Do you know how MANY people "sell" in this world of ours? The best of them don't EVER make you feel like you were "sold" anything. They just helped you buy.

:)

Let the debate continue!

Selling is Persuading, either by making people get something they don't necessarily KNOW they need or by making them get more than they need. So to me is product quantity related.

Marketing is lettting people know the benefits of what you have so they can decide for themselves to get it or not. Marketing is Selling an idea, not products.

Obviously the purpose of Marketing is to sell more!

Did I confuse you enough!

Have wonderful weekend!

Hola!!
Eric, tu eres un inspirador y quiero que sepas que te sigo igual que a Randy... pero esta vez tengo que decir que estoy totalmente de acuerdo con Randy. Creo que cuando vendes, no piensas necesariamente en las necesidades de la otra persona... en cambio cuando "mercadeas" tienes en cuenta realmente a la otra persona.
Es la primera vez que manifiesto mi opinión publicamente y tengo que felicitarte por tu página web y decirte que todos los dias aprendo algo nuevo contigo y con Randy.

Saludos y Bendiciones,

Yohana - Bogota, Colombia!

Absolutely brilliant stuff, I am enjoying every second of the videos :)

I think selling and marketing are really close in appearances but the content and intention may vary. I feel marketing is an informative selling and selling is forced marketing. Randy, I think you just marketed it to us there but you are so good at it it doesn't even come across as marketing it just feels like a warm advice. You are that good.


Keep up the excellent work guys.

Sultan Aman

Randy sold me on 'marketing'! I like the term 'educators'. We educate people and give them enough information to make the right decision for them.

Looking for people that are motivated....that's good! That's the key to success in Networking Marketing.....SWSWSW! Great show....that passion is missing in so many I come across! Have 5 more shows please!
Tony

Without a doubt, what we do as network marketing professionals is a "blend" of sales, marketing, sharing and educating. As you think about the "process" involved with sponoring and getting customers, we might use a single or combination of the blend. For example, when prospecting or inviting, we are "sharing and marketing" our product and industry. We might be more involved with the actual "sales" aspect of the business when dealing with customers. As the organization grows, you are involved with more "educating" of ideas and the system because people have a tendency to want to do their own thing.
What I am learning as I build my team is that people don't want to be "sold" anything, but if what I have is something that is going to improve their finances (network marketing) or solve their problem (product); then they are willing to get involved for what's right for them!
Great Stuff Guys!

Dear Randy and Eric

I like you both, but...

Selling? Marketing? Sharing?

If what we are doing is not sharing, would you please change the "Recession proof" video in agelmediaonline?

Selling? Marketing?

As Roosevelt Cooper very well said

Selling is the act of participating in the exchange of goods and services for an amount of money or its equivalent.

Marketing is the total of activities involved in the transfer of goods from the producer or seller to the consumer or buyer, including advertising, shipping, storing, and selling.

So at the end, we are selling, Marketing and Sharing. And Sharing is good!

In fact one of my defining moments that allowed me to see this profession in a way that fits my personality was when I realized I didn't have to sell products, but to give other people Business opportunities.

And this is not wrong.

As you very well said on one of your audio tools, we succeed by giving other peoples success.

Now Randy, did I hear you say "my followers"?

I thought you said also on one of your audio tools that "followers" don't duplicate...

But I like you the same :)

And the think I like the most is your "I don't give a damn to what people think of my ideas!" mentality.

Whenever I get to that kind of success you reached, I guess I will do the same :)

Eric, still waitting for you reply :)

Love you all
Alfredo Rodrigues

Hey guys this is an absolutely brilliant post... and by far the best one yet.

If we look at this argument strictly from a branding point of view the answer is obvious.
We are not in sales we are in marketing. it's not MLS or NS it's MLM and NM.
That in itself is an important distinction.

The fact that there are so many differing opinions on what we do makes it even more important to continue this branding/understanding process.

I believe that Randy is 100% correct with what he is saying, sorry Eric...
If we have to resort to sales tactics to close someone on our product or opportunity, we will have to close them on every further step in the business building process.

Our job is quite simple, we present our concepts to as many people as possible by educating them on what we have to offer. The better we communicate our concept the better the chances are of people understanding that we are truly offering solutions.

Our job is to seek out people who have identified a need in their life and are actively seeking a solution for it. You couldn't sell these people anything if your life depended on it because they have already sold themselves. They are simply waiting for us to come along and point them in the direction of the solution they are seeking.

Here's an example of what i'm talking about: You have the car all loaded up with your wife and kids and your heading out on your vacation. Traveling along you blow a tire. Do you think anyone has to sell you a tire, or do they just have to point you in the right direction so you can solve your identified problem?

If that same family was stopped at the side of the road because one of the kids was ill, You would have to work pretty hard to sell them a tire wouldn't you.

Marketing is finding a need and filling it with a solution...
We all need to stop selling and start solving...

Great job guys keep up the awesome work, I look forward to these posts every single day!!!

Randy, Im sorry, youre selling!

we all sell, everyday to everyone! we "sell" to our spouses on why they are still with us. We "sell" to our friends every time we ask them to go watch a movie/dinner/sporting events.

now you can call "selling" whatever you like although, hey, at the end of the day we are selling.

On that point, we are NOT convincing anyone to join our business! we ONLY look and sift for those who are looking for change.

Randy, I think is a GREAT sifter...

this debate can go on for ages...

You're awsome!

This is so right on. I couldn't of said it better myself. There is a very different element to network marketing vs. selling people, if you go around convincing people to join your team you will not get any duplication. Hard sell techniques must be used to sell cars, timeshares, or insurance, and may work well if you are going to just retail products, but to find others who are going to treat this like a business you must have a totally different approach.

Eric, your program is so spot on and informative that you should consider charging for it, and add an MLM referral plan to allow all of us to possibly create another income stream with it - like Leaders Club, IlearningGlobal, etc.. Just food for thought.

hey Eric! for convinience purposes please make the links in your mails clickable?! take care and thanks for an awesome videoblog!

I think it's all three things: marketing, selling and also educating!
Thanks for sharing these thoughts. You both are great, Randy and Eric!
Cheers

Good session. But I do not agree with your definition of sales. Sales is not pushing un- needed products. Sales is about problem solving and effective communication. To stereo -type Sales is on par with people stereotyping network marketers. The line between sales and marketing is getting thinner by the year as the Internet has created the most informed buyers in history. My simple simple terms have sales as helping people understand why they should buy..and marketing is becoming pretty much the same thing just done in mass with the added task of building a brand. As for what we do as MLMer's; we build networks by selling a system (company,product,team and culture) that has the promise of providing us the lifestyle that traditional jobs and businesses can not.

One big advantage we have in Selling our industry is the fact that we actually own a huge piece of the wealth the industry creates. Not coporate executives, board members, and proffered stock holders.

‘Sales’ does not work. I love sales and in the past have had success putting people into an organization and then suffered the inevitable point where more people got out a month than got in. I couldn't do it for and to them every day. Marketing is the answer and I say the marketing method is called 'enrollment.' When you enroll someone, you enroll them into their dream, their vision and then offer the opportunity for a way to have their dreams come true. If they are near '12' o'clock, looking and ready, and they have complete permission to say NO (my sales training sees this part as how to handle objections but if you do you have to do it with them for the rest of time!). If someone experiences the opportunity to really say no and walk, their yes actually is a true yes from them not because you did it to them. Enrolled in their dreams and passion I don't have to baby sit, I don't have to spend near as much time moving them over the 'line.' Once enrolled someone's own life keeps them on track... if they are enrolled. However if they are Sold? Buyers remorse and then the ‘witness protection program’ are the end result. I am excited how Eric and Randy are making this possible. Thank you for making it so.

I'm all in on Randy's definition - when marketing we educate people to get the products they need, while selling is all about makeing a turnover on products people doesn't nessecarily need....but you make them think they do!

Randy you are right, you are educating the difference. But i realy ounderstand Eric and his point of wiew. Randy you need to educate him a few minuts more:) lol
Love junior75 (twitter)

I think Randy was definitely marketing and not selling us on this concept. However, both of you guys were spot on. It's NOT our job to motivate people but rather our job is to find motivated people. We need to share with website with the world! Keep up the good work.

the argument could be made that everyone does sales in every aspect of life. we sell our spouses on dating/marrying us, we sell our kids on acting right, we sell our ideas to our friends, etc...

so i agree with what Eric is saying.

At the same time I think Randy is 100% on point about what we do in our profession. I agree that what we do is marketing. Our job is not to sell or convince someone but to look for people who are looking. We find people who are looking by marketing… it's our job to raise awareness about our product/service and/or opportunity through "marketing".


p.s. Hey Randy, you watch your mouth about Tony! LOI

I would say: Marketing & Sales

As I see it, We market a solution and then EMPOWERING people in the business

I love it!!!! You two are great. Keep it coming boys!

Being that i kinda have worked with ya a tad bit Gage (and yes that is a privlege)..... I will put it in your own words my brutha ---" Randy, you know i love you but..........You are an awesome salesman so i have to disagree with you in a humbly compassionate way :-)!

Of course you are not the salesmen in any of the traditional sense! What you define as marketing to me is a form of sales..so we are more talking disagreement of definitions here.

I think you have to be a sharer, a marketer, and a great sales person no matter what if you want to reach high levels of success. Fortunately all of these skills, contrary to popular belief, can be learned and sharpened....and i don't mean in the traditional 9 no's type of way. I hate that form of selling. How you approach someone is a form of sales..how you talk to someone or share is a form of sales... leading by example is a form of sales.....all of which you do extremely well my friend. So, in agreement with E-war but still thinking you are the man, Worre wins the sales argument.

Eric if he disowns me you better have a spot for me in your organization :-)

Keep up the great stuff guys!

Wesley Anderson

Selling is the act of participating in the exchange of goods and services for an amount of money or its equivalent.

Marketing is the total of activities involved in the transfer of goods from the producer or seller to the consumer or buyer, including advertising, shipping, storing, and selling.

Sharing is to use, participate in, enjoy, receive, etc., jointly.

Based on those definitions from the dictionary, we do ALL of these things in network marketing.

Marketing, Sales, Educating, Sharing I don't care what you really want to call it.. The END RESULT is someone is buying into what you are talking about and that is a SALE!
You guys are awesome and Randy to be fair I always say " I am not looking for salesman I am looking for people who want to educate" and education is a sale on someones beliefs...

Hey guys,

I see that lazy bum Eric forgot to post the link for the MLM Manifesto that he promised you. You can find it here:
http://www.networkmarketingtimes.com/mlm-manife...

Please get the word out to your team, so we can help revolutionize the profession.

-RG

This was an amazing episode!
In the end I am not sure where I stand because I hate sales - and don't see myself as a salesperson - but after 'educating' people, and 'sharing' your products with them I do think you 'sell' them on the opportunity. So I think it is a little of everything.

Thanks for all you do Eric & Randy, you are the best.

Great! Never looked at my business in this light. Still feel both of you have exceptional reasoning. I tend to lean a little more towards Randy's philosophies. Definitely shed some new light on my way of net working.
Thanks a bunch!!
Keep up the good deeds!

In my opinion Randy is a good mixture of sales and marketing combined. I understand what he's getting at. The part about marketing is the part that duplicates. Most people (the 90% that can't and don't sell) can hand out a DVD, get someone to listen to a recorded call. But if you think about it sales is involved in getting people to do these things.

Although marketing is a big part of what we do as professional marketers, I believe we do have to have a degree of salesmanship in our efforts to get those we prospect to get involved. There has rarely been a time when a third party tool has done all the work and I didn't have to sell at least a little.

We might market until up to a point but somewhere in the process we change into our selling hat. We may call it marketing but when somebody makes a decision to involve themselves in Network Marketing, they have just been sold. They may have sold themselves but selling was involved.

Just some thoughts,

Ced Reynolds, CITRMS

p.s. Randy, I think you're a great marketer and a great salesman. Just ask Eric :)

I for one think this the best one yet.. Two titans banging at each other trying to sell their ideas to one another... I see both sides. As an educator I lived by the mantra." Students/kids don't care what you know until they they know you care." I think the same holds true about NM. Why would anyone buy into a product until they are educated and they don't feel manipulated. Show them that you have their best interest at heart and you are there to help them become successful. So in the end . I think Randy is right regarding the education portion of it, But Eric is right that in the end it is selling an idea. Educate a person about the benefits and then sell them how those benefits affect them positively. It was fun watching Randy not holding back as much as he normally does. Telling us how he REALLY FEELS..

Great episode!

Hello Eric and Randy. I think both things can be considered sales. What sales actually is is the "art" of influencing someone- with information, selling tactics, manipulation, lies, etc.- into making a decision to buy your product, idea, proposition, etc. I love the fact that I don't know if Randy knows this or not; I think he does, and what he's doing by labeling with the name "marketing" what he says we're supposed to do inside the ethical system that he follows and teaches is separating what he knows works with what may or not work, but is not duplicable nevertheless and sometimes even unethical or ilegal. Eric, your doing the same while calling it "sharing". I think you calling the same thing by two different names, and as long as our business uses the different names for spirited discussions with good friends like you did in the video i't's ok. Otherwise is is more important to focus that your organization is just following the system (Randy's or whoever leader you have that has an ethical, duplicable system) and not worry what it is or not.

It was fun and awesome see you guys not agree in everything while keeping the respect and friendship. YOU'RE GREAT ROLE MODELS, THANK YOU AGAIN!!!

People are attracted to those they like and that comes from confidence (posture) and they are then more likely to listen and take them seriously.

Randy sure sells it, (himself and his ideas), however he then reverts to using his skills and posture to guide people through a process that in his words is about "educating the prospect, giving them enough information to make the right decision for them".

So I suppose it's a case of selling oneself first then marketing through a system.

Hi Eric
Loving the series and thanks so much for what you are doing.
I'm with Randy on this one. There is a difference between 'selling' and 'marketing'.
I sold cars for 15 years and my 'sales' skills never really worked for me if i tried to use them in this business.
Giving people the information for a solution to their problem, to me, is marketing. Isn't that what we do?
They have made their own mind up rather than me using sales techniques to convince them.
Anyway, that's my take on it.
Looking forward to my next daily 'fix' of NM Pro.

All the best
Graham Downing (London,UK)